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Discussion Starter #1
if i change a map to realtime security when i am parked somewhere what is the best way to get to the base map again?
If I use the map changing feature i will be doing a realtime flash and can not default back to my base map. i was thinking i can just use the clear code feature. that will clear out the realtime security map and i'll be back to the base map. does that sound correct?
thanks for the help.
steve
 

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You would follow normal procedures and "Reflash" your ECU back to what ever map you were running.

The no start issue is created by the rev limiter cutting fuel to the motor before the car can turn over.

A "Realtime" map is not complete map and with the anti theft feature in mind it can be defeated. A person would need to complete a hard reset, disconnecting the battary. That would reset the ECU wiping out any "Realtime "data, and the real time anti theft map.

The only way to use this feature is to take the extra min an "ReFlash" your ECU and take the AP with you.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
i found what i was looking for at Cobb's forum. I can just flash with the realtime map that matches my base map or reset the ECU.
 

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Don't most ecu's only have a finite amount of times that they can be programmed before they need to be replaced?
 

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Don't most ecu's only have a finite amount of times that they can be programmed before they need to be replaced?
^^^^HMM interesting... Where have you read/seen that?
 

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I've heard there is a limit of 100 reflashes, but I've also heard that is a myth. Unfortunately, I can't validate either source. I just tried to give Cobb a call but they are closed for the Holiday weekend. If Rallitek is open, give them a call...these would be the best sources to answer this question. It would be interesting to hear from a Subaru dealer service department regarding this. I believe they now have a utility supplied by Subaru that allows them to reflash when necessary.
 

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I have heard about both sides too, although I have never seen any SOLID documantation on this issue... IMO, if there was a limit of 100 Reflashes, I would tend to think that there would be more post about having to replace the ECU, not really here on 3G's board, they are too new, but other boards I would think that there would be more discussion about this issue.

If I had to guess, I tend to lean to the latter portion that is a myth. I am interested to hear what you find out.
 

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okay, I just got off the phone with Rallitek (I did not get the name of the person I spoke with) and they said there is no limit to how many times you can reflash.
 

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It might refer to the number of cycles flash memory can be rewritten (assuming the ECU uses flash memory). However, most flash cells nowadays can be rewritten so many times it might as well be infinite
 

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It might refer to the number of cycles flash memory can be rewritten (assuming the ECU uses flash memory). However, most flash cells nowadays can be rewritten so many times it might as well be infinite
Quoted for truth. This should be the case. I do have some background in the area of computer hardware, and I would only offer caution that this is generally the case with flash memory is that there IS a number at which it will not write any more. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#Memory_wear for more information. I would be cautious flashing something a lot (100+ times) that is not designed for it specifically. While commercially available chips should withstand 100,000 (according to this) I would generally say that a car ECU is not likely to be designed to be re flashed as many times as a typical product...so use wisely. Though I doubt anybody would run into trouble.

I thought I would also mention that I found this thread out of a search. I want to know about changing the map back to stock when taking it in to the dealer for anything.

While I don't want to be the guy that expects the dealer to step up if I eff up my car, at the same time some people have raised doubts in my head as to the reliability of the stock map. I want to play as safe as possible. I like this car stock, also. If anything I'd be 'stage 1', but I have a warranty to 60k because I NEED this car as a DD. I'm sure some people won't like me asking this, but I will anyway (because of the dealer I have locally): If I have something catastrophic happen (like 3rd gear blows up) and I had a stage 1 map on the car (which by itself isn't likely to cause the failure, more like bad driving, or a bad gear), if I switch back to a stock map is there any trace that the ECU has been changed? I have the kind of dealer that would check that (and no option to go to any other dealer) :(

I'm sure this has been asked before. Like I said, I tried to find it, to no avail.

joneSi
 

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this was a concern of mine too before i purchased the cobb ap... was it detectable by the dealer? the research i did a year ago indicated that the dealer can tell how many times an ecu had been reflashed but i think that was for open source tuning. to my understanding... the cobb ap is undectable if unmarried from the car. apparently, it does not store on the ecu how many times you reflash while the ap is installed on the car. i may be off a little on this because it was a long time ago i read about this stuff and my memory is failing w/ age... ;) ( of all the things i lost... i miss my mind the most. )
 

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this was a concern of mine too before i purchased the cobb ap... was it detectable by the dealer? the research i did a year ago indicated that the dealer can tell how many times an ecu had been reflashed but i think that was for open source tuning. to my understanding... the cobb ap is undectable if unmarried from the car. apparently, it does not store on the ecu how many times you reflash while the ap is installed on the car. i may be off a little on this because it was a long time ago i read about this stuff and my memory is failing w/ age... ;) ( of all the things i lost... i miss my mind the most. )
I've read on here that it does change the checksum return value after it has been flashed, even with the AP. Not sure if that is true. I've got a pretty good relationship with my service guy, I might just go ahead with it, and assume they won't check.

joneSi
 

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I hemmed and hawed about the AP as well, considering the warranty is something I need more than most considering my lack of tools and know-how to do my own repair work. That said, I pulled the trigger one alcohol-hazed night and have not regretted it. A stage 1 tune makes a pretty big difference, even just the OTS Cobb map. The Perrin map is insane. I don't really even really see the point of thinking stage 2 now - the car pulls so hard down low it is silly.

The dealer has no reason to check. Your bigger worry is that they'll do some stupid service update reflash on your car when you take it in for service and they'll accidentally un-sync your AP on you (having you have to then send it back to Cobb to be un-married manually).
 

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I hemmed and hawed about the AP as well, considering the warranty is something I need more than most considering my lack of tools and know-how to do my own repair work. That said, I pulled the trigger one alcohol-hazed night and have not regretted it. A stage 1 tune makes a pretty big difference, even just the OTS Cobb map. The Perrin map is insane. I don't really even really see the point of thinking stage 2 now - the car pulls so hard down low it is silly.

The dealer has no reason to check. Your bigger worry is that they'll do some stupid service update reflash on your car when you take it in for service and they'll accidentally un-sync your AP on you (having you have to then send it back to Cobb to be un-married manually).


I was under the impression that the AP would lock out even the dealship... is that not ture anymore.
 

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Well, I might just do it, then. I will not give them any reason to check it (no UP, DP, catback or anything else), also it it would get the stock map back on it when it goes back to the dealership, and of course for auto-x events (only legal map is stock map for Stock D). I just want a little extra fun, lol.

I don't think the AP locks out the dealer.

I -do- want to try to find more information about the checksum value...but I think its safe. If I give them no reason to check, I doubt they'll check...I also would like more info on longevity of the car with more boost, etc. Anybody care to point me where to go?

joneSi
 

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Well, I might just do it, then. I will not give them any reason to check it (no UP, DP, catback or anything else), also it it would get the stock map back on it when it goes back to the dealership, and of course for auto-x events (only legal map is stock map for Stock D). I just want a little extra fun, lol.

I don't think the AP locks out the dealer.

I -do- want to try to find more information about the checksum value...but I think its safe. If I give them no reason to check, I doubt they'll check...I also would like more info on longevity of the car with more boost, etc. Anybody care to point me where to go?

joneSi

Are you sure about that... on Cobbs Forum Unless something has changd in the past 6-7months there are a couple thread, that I was a part of, that discusses this topic. Have you researched it?
 

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Well, I might just do it, then. I will not give them any reason to check it (no UP, DP, catback or anything else), also it it would get the stock map back on it when it goes back to the dealership, and of course for auto-x events (only legal map is stock map for Stock D). I just want a little extra fun, lol.

I don't think the AP locks out the dealer.

I -do- want to try to find more information about the checksum value...but I think its safe. If I give them no reason to check, I doubt they'll check...I also would like more info on longevity of the car with more boost, etc. Anybody care to point me where to go?

joneSi



Are you sure about that... on Cobbs Forum Unless something has changd in the past 6-7months there are a couple thread, that I was a part of, that discusses this topic. Have you researched it?


The STi's had to go back in to get ECU reflashes, and that would stop the AP from working without a reflash for it without updating the firmware for the AP.

See:

http://www.3gwrx.com/forum/index.php?topic=4391.0

http://www.3gwrx.com/forum/index.php?topic=3255.0



So there had to be a way to reflash without locking out the dealer. I'm not exactly sure, as I don't have an AP. But can anyone confirm?

joneSi
 

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Well, I might just do it, then. I will not give them any reason to check it (no UP, DP, catback or anything else), also it it would get the stock map back on it when it goes back to the dealership, and of course for auto-x events (only legal map is stock map for Stock D). I just want a little extra fun, lol.

I don't think the AP locks out the dealer.

I -do- want to try to find more information about the checksum value...but I think its safe. If I give them no reason to check, I doubt they'll check...I also would like more info on longevity of the car with more boost, etc. Anybody care to point me where to go?

joneSi



Are you sure about that... on Cobbs Forum Unless something has changd in the past 6-7months there are a couple thread, that I was a part of, that discusses this topic. Have you researched it?


The STi's had to go back in to get ECU reflashes, and that would stop the AP from working without a reflash for it without updating the firmware for the AP.

See:

http://www.3gwrx.com/forum/index.php?topic=4391.0

http://www.3gwrx.com/forum/index.php?topic=3255.0



So there had to be a way to reflash without locking out the dealer. I'm not exactly sure, as I don't have an AP. But can anyone confirm?

joneSi





Here you go.... AGAIN unless something has changed...... This was actually only a few months ago...

http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41278&highlight=firmware&page=2

Page 2 Post #13

From my understanding, it was at the request of our tuners that we started to lock ECUs. The work that goes into a tune is considered proprietary and we lock the ECU to protect that work. Also, we were having an issue with customers having their ECUs reset by dealerships when not uninstalling the AccessPORT before taking their vehicles in for service, rendering their AccessPORT unusable. This lock prevents that issue.
 

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Yeah, I get that...but people here as of August 08 and October 08 (both of those threads that I posted were from those dates) have been in to get reflashed with STi's. Page 2 of the STi recall and touge-monster states that the reflash was successful (that he could still use the AP). So it is confirmed that it can be reflashed by the dealer (and they don't state that anything had to be changed to have it flashed).

Maybe this changed with the 1.03 AP firmware? Or maybe the unit needs to be uninstalled prior to flashing (IDK how this is done, again I don't have one), but in that thread (that you posted) it does state that it would need to be uninstalled prior to flashing. Is that what you mean. Sorry, kind of a <total> newb to ECU flashes. Fortunately (or unfortunately, lol) I know about computers, but little about cars (and a sorry assed mix of car computers...). Does a device stay on the car after the flash to a new map has taken place? How does one go about 'uninstalling'?

I think I'm just brining more questions rather than answers....

joneSi
 

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Yeah, I get that...but people here as of August 08 and October 08 (both of those threads that I posted were from those dates) have been in to get reflashed with STi's. Page 2 of the STi recall and touge-monster states that the reflash was successful (that he could still use the AP). So it is confirmed that it can be reflashed by the dealer (and they don't state that anything had to be changed to have it flashed).

Maybe this changed with the 1.03 AP firmware? Or maybe the unit needs to be uninstalled prior to flashing (IDK how this is done, again I don't have one), but in that thread (that you posted) it does state that it would need to be uninstalled prior to flashing. Is that what you mean. Sorry, kind of a newb to ECU flashes. Fortunately (or unfortunately, lol) I know about computers, but little about cars (and a sorry assed mix of car computers...). Does a device stay on the car after the flash to a new map has taken place? How does one go about 'uninstalling'?

I think I'm just brining more questions rather than answers....

joneSi
The AP will lock the ECU so "Your AP" will be the only unit that will work on your car (I think they did it via VIN numbers). So in that situation the device stays on the car as a lock, but it runs whatever map you put in it. Does that make sense?

Uninstalling is fairly simple. When you Marry your AP to your ECU it downloads the OEM mapping and stores it on the device. When you unmarry or uninstall the AP it will put the OEM mapping back on your car.

*******************************************************************************
TougeMonster posted this:

From the "2008 STi Recall" thread

http://www.3gwrx.com/forum/index.php?topic=3255.0

AHHHHHHHH DAMMMIT!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
I am one of the VIN numbers, Just got the letter today.
It says they will not honor any engine warranty related items unless I bring it back to them for the ECM calibration.
VERIFICATION that this is the real deal.

Gotta go to the dealer tomorrow. Ill let you guys know when I get it back
Just a reminder remember to uninstall your APs prior to bringing to dealer. For you open source guys I am sorry, but they said engine warranty is considered void unless this "fix" is installed onto your ECMs.


from the Dealers and the AP thread

http://www.3gwrx.com/forum/index.php?topic=4391.0

They can't tell. I sent mine to them 3 times now.
Once even for th e ECU reprogram recalls for the STi
When you took your car in did you take the AP off before you went in? If the AP is still installed can they do a reflash?
Uninstall
 
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