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This happens everytime I try to shift FAST from 1st to 2nd at high rpm. The other gears are ok, its just 1st to 2nd that I encounter some resistance. I'll try to explain as best as i can :

1)Moving off from 1st , I step on acc till abt 5k rpm, then
2)ram the clutch in and shift from 1st to 2nd.
3)as gear lever moves down from 1st to middle(9 o'clock position), there's no resistance, but from there down to 2nd, I feel the resistance as I force my lever down. I could hear and feel the gear "crunch", which I don't think its good.

Is there something wrong? OR is it my shifting?

*edit* I might have over exagerated when I mentioned the sound. There's actually no grinding sound, it actually the notchy feeling. I think that's the term i was looking for.

The gear goes in nicely if I shift at normal speed, even at high revs. It just doesn't like it when I do it too fast.
 

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This happens everytime I try to shift FAST from 1st to 2nd at high rpm. The other gears are ok, its just 1st to 2nd that I encounter some resistance. I'll try to explain as best as i can :

1)Moving off from 1st , I step on acc till abt 5k rpm, then
2)ram the clutch in and shift from 1st to 2nd.
3)as gear lever moves down from 1st to middle(9 o'clock position), there's no resistance, but from there down to 2nd, I feel the resistance as I force my lever down. I could hear and feel the gear "crunch", which I don't think its good.

Is there something wrong? OR is it my shifting?
Wah u very fierce racy driver ;D
 

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This happens everytime I try to shift FAST from 1st to 2nd at high rpm. The other gears are ok, its just 1st to 2nd that I encounter some resistance. I'll try to explain as best as i can :

1)Moving off from 1st , I step on acc till abt 5k rpm, then
2)ram the clutch in and shift from 1st to 2nd.
3)as gear lever moves down from 1st to middle(9 o'clock position), there's no resistance, but from there down to 2nd, I feel the resistance as I force my lever down. I could hear and feel the gear "crunch", which I don't think its good.

Is there something wrong? OR is it my shifting?
Wah u very fierce racy driver ;D
rofl!


The bottom line is that you DEFINITELY shouldn't be "forcing" or "ramming" anything when you are driving, even when everything is functioning smoothly and you are trying to shift "fast". It sounds like you are simply WAY too rough on your transmission and have worn out a syncro as a result. The more you insist on shifting like this, the worse it will get.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I might have over exagerated when I mentioned the sound. There's actually no grinding sound, it actually the notchy feeling. I think that's the term i was looking for.

The gear goes in nicely if I shift at normal speed, even at high revs. It just doesn't like it when I do it too fast.

Got this from another website :

"The 1>2 will always be rougher than the rest because of the insane change in gearing. Whether its notchy on top of that is a different issue. I think what you feel is the extra effort the transmission has to do between those two gears, and not the shifter itself being notchy. The shifter should always feel the same level of notchiness, its just the magnitude of the effort to get through the notches that differs, which depends on rpms, load, and a few other things.

The fact that you claim to always shift at the same rpm every time is certainly part of it. You cant do that and expect to have perfect shifts. A shift should never be done based entirely on the revs. Take into account the grade of the road, traffic, desired acceleration, whether youre turning, etc. By shifting at the same rpms and ignoring all the other, often more important, factors, you may at times be overworking the engine or transmission.

The final part is human input. The reason most of us here drive a stick is for driver input and car feedback. Humans arent perfect, so no matter what you do, no two shifts will ever be exactly the same. If you want that, get an automatic. Otherwise, get over it because thats part of driving a manual."

"The more work the synchro has to do, the more force it needs to do its work. The force needed for the synchro to do its work comes from your arm. There is always more work to do on the 1 > 2 shift than any other, since the difference is gear ratios is greater than for any other pair of gears and also since you tend to run 1st up higher than any other gear in ordinary driving. So it is entirely normal to experience far more resistance on the 1 > 2 shift than any other."
 

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While that information you found is true for the most part, you still don't want to force your shifts. The syncros will do their job, you don't have to put a lot of force on the shifter. If you insist on forcing the shift then you will put more stress on the syncros than necessary and that grinding feeling will ONLY increase. Syncros are pretty easy to ruin. My advice...do your car a favor and learn to double clutch for downshifting, and take it easier on the car, even when shifting at high rpms. Do NOT force your shift, just let the syncro do their jobs.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yeah, i guess I'd better not shift so aggressively, after hearing all your advices. Thanks.
 

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Also you should only push the clutch in about halfway to shift gears. There is no need to push the clutch in all the way when shifting. ;)
 

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Also you should only push the clutch in about halfway to shift gears. There is no need to push the clutch in all the way when shifting. ;)
well, thatll depend on the clutch. most factory clutches engage pretty late but a lot of aftermarket ones will engage pretty early, so you'll grind the gears pretty bad if you don't push the clutch in all the way.
 

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No my advice was NOT bad advice, and no you will not grind your gears. I received this advice from an official subaru driver at a Subaru track day event. When i was riding with him on the track, he kept yelling at me for pushing the clutch in all the way on these cars. So you can go with advice from "know it all joe on the internet msg board" or you can take the advice that I am relaying to you directly out of a proffesional Subaru test driver's mouth. HMMM which one is more credible? :p

PS: Go out and try it, if you have not already. The car shifts faster and ALOT smoother with no grinding......
 

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No my advice was NOT bad advice, and no you will not grind your gears. I received this advice from an official subaru driver at a Subaru track day event. When i was riding with him on the track, he kept yelling at me for pushing the clutch in all the way on these cars. So you can go with advice from "know it all joe on the internet msg board" or you can take the advice that I am relaying to you directly out of a proffesional Subaru test driver's mouth. HMMM which one is more credible? :p

PS: Go out and try it, if you have not already. The car shifts faster and ALOT smoother with no grinding......
Is that pro driver going pay for your broken tranny when you don't quite push the clutch in enough and blow a syncro...or more likely wear your tranny and clutch out faster because you didn't quite push it in enough?

Didn't think so.

You may not NEED to push the clutch in all the way, but there is extra slop in there so the driver is sure that the pressure plate is fully open before shifting.

You are more likely to have greater tranny and clutch longevity if you push the clutch in all the way, plain and simple.

And you CAN shift smooth and fast with pushing the clutch down all the way...i do it all the time...
 

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I read somewhere( can't remember where) that first and second are double syncro so the notchy feeling is normal. Not sure though!
 

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The tranny is notchy and what you are describing is normal. It is a big reason why many of the test drivers out there prefer the EVO and a big reason why the STi loses out on their tests. using OBCs in our runs, the STi lost a fraction of a second and exit speeds between shifts against the EVO due to driver error or shift knock situations. On our testing we gave time to get used to the transmission of the STi and with proper rev-matching, it was actually quite smooth. In the end, with VDC off, the DCCD set to rear and the I-Drive at S#. Our results were similar to that of the Japanese, with the STi coming out on top by about .5 sec per lap against the X MR and almost a full sec against the Std EVO X.

Note that most tests are done with DCCD auto, VDC on or Dynamic, which makes a huge difference in the vehicle characteristics.

Just some info to digest.
I push the clutch in all the way. Drive the way you feel. When test driving the NSX here, Honda techs and engineers with the OBCs were telling me not to heel-toe. Imagine my disbelief when they told me this. However when looking at their logs, they also verified that entry speeds were higher and smoother, along with higher exit speeds when heel-toeing.
To the OP-Your description also fails to mention how you are rev-matching so I would suggest practicing this during upshift and heel-toe on the down shifts as needed. ( I am assuming this problem does not arise when driving normally, hence assuming you are doing sport or spirited driving)
 

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No my advice was NOT bad advice, and no you will not grind your gears. I received this advice from an official subaru driver at a Subaru track day event. When i was riding with him on the track, he kept yelling at me for pushing the clutch in all the way on these cars. So you can go with advice from "know it all joe on the internet msg board" or you can take the advice that I am relaying to you directly out of a proffesional Subaru test driver's mouth. HMMM which one is more credible? :p

PS: Go out and try it, if you have not already. The car shifts faster and ALOT smoother with no grinding......
several race car drivers shift without using the clutch at all and they cause little to no damage to the transmission. doesn't mean you should do it too. professional driver's can get away with it because they're good at it, but your average driver has no need to risk damaging their trannie by attempting professional techniques. now granted, there's nothing wrong with pushing the clutch halfway because it engages relatively late, but switch your clutch and suddenly you're grinding every gear. it's not a good habit to learn because each car and clutch is different
 
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