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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry this is a nub question, but I'm new to the subie world. Anyways, I'm considering purchasing a WRX sometime within the next month or so, but I currently need some clarification. Alot of the threads here say to start modding, the perrin or cobb AP is pretty much a necessity; however, whenever I look at the modifications people have on their cars, they don't list the AP as a mod. I thought this was detrimental to the car ???. Anyways, I would really appreciate any advice :D

Oh yeah, I was also wondering if anyone knew of any other wrx forums that focused on the 08+ models like this forum does. I found clubwrx.net, but the +08 models just feel like they were thrown in with the bunch. again, thanks for any help :D

-Jinho
 

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The AP is an ecu tuning tool. If your plans include mods like, TBE or CAI you will need the car tuned. The AP allows company "A" to send you a Tuned Map for their Exhaust system, CAI, etc. The AP alone is very useful from the start because you can re-flash the stock ecu map for a Stage 1. Which requires no physical mods at all ;D The stage 1 map unlocks around 20-30 WHP (depending on who you talk to) which is not bad for the 700. It also has a host of on-board gauges and an OBDII code reader.It took me a while to spend that much money on some little gray box, but I'm really glad I did :)
 

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There's actually alot of people here with the AP. I am one that believes in tuning a car, stock or not. Factory settings of Ignition timings etc are extremely conservative, understandably due to the cost reduction effect in mass production.

Anyway, yes its a necessity when you mod the car, cos even a change in the exhaust system or intakes will alter the car's rich/lean settings, and that may have a detrimental result in a long run.

And no, there's no other 08 WRX forums around. You're 1 of the lucky 600 to find us! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys! I have one more question, what do the terms stage I and stage II mean? I mean I've seen it thrown around alot, but never seen it so widely used before I came to this forum. (I've been only at two N/A car forums so far)

Thanks Guys, I really like this small community, it makes me feel more comfortable posting :D

-Jinho
 

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stage 1 = stock car unlocks some hp even stock

stage 2 = turbo back exhaust, lets you unleash even more hp because backpressure wont be built up by the turbo with the more free flowing exhaust.
 

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to clarify a little bit more:
Stage 1 is generally stock turbo, stock exhaust, stock airbox. All that is changed is the tuning. Pulleys and cat-back exhausts can go with a stage 1 tune.
Stage 2 must have a aftermarket downpipe.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So does that mean that the stage I makes the car richer and the stage II even richer? (sorry about all the questions)
 

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that depends on the tuner.... it's not just about dumping in more fuel and making the mix richer. There is also the appropriate boost pressure, timing of the combustion cycle, and a bunch of other things.... I wish I could answer your question better, but I'm just an average enthusiast.
 

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Oh yeah, I was also wondering if anyone knew of any other wrx forums that focused on the 08+ models like this forum does. I found clubwrx.net, but the +08 models just feel like they were thrown in with the bunch. again, thanks for any help :D

-Jinho
It is not 08 specific, but there is a wealth of knowledge (and pain..... ;D) on nasioc.com......
 

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Thanks guys! I have one more question, what do the terms stage I and stage II mean? I mean I've seen it thrown around alot, but never seen it so widely used before I came to this forum. (I've been only at two N/A car forums so far)

Thanks Guys, I really like this small community, it makes me feel more comfortable posting :D

-Jinho
this is a great thread on the subject...Unabomber is one smart dude...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1471734
 

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I too am a noob to turbos. I unfortunatly didnt research too much before modding my new 08. My question is what stage would I load from the accessport. All I have now is a CAI and a bigger TMIC. I am awaiting funds to get the downpipe and exhaust. I know I'd run the stage 2 once I get all that so I'd imagine that I'd just do the stage 1 for now right? I do not have the option of putting the stock airbox or TMIC back on so that's out the window :-\ Any help would be appreciated
 

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I too am a noob to turbos. I unfortunatly didnt research too much before modding my new 08. My question is what stage would I load from the accessport. All I have now is a CAI and a bigger TMIC. I am awaiting funds to get the downpipe and exhaust. I know I'd run the stage 2 once I get all that so I'd imagine that I'd just do the stage 1 for now right? I do not have the option of putting the stock airbox or TMIC back on so that's out the window :-\ Any help would be appreciated
Yes stage 1 map is fine for now. If you want to get the most hp from your current mods, get a pro tune. Man I can't wait for my AP to come in. ;D Hey when you get your dp and exhaust let me know how it all goes. As for the CAI man, I wish I would've bought a short ram with a heat shield instead or mod the cold air piping so it won't be so low lol.
 

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I too am a noob to turbos. I unfortunatly didnt research too much before modding my new 08. My question is what stage would I load from the accessport. All I have now is a CAI and a bigger TMIC. I am awaiting funds to get the downpipe and exhaust. I know I'd run the stage 2 once I get all that so I'd imagine that I'd just do the stage 1 for now right? I do not have the option of putting the stock airbox or TMIC back on so that's out the window :-\ Any help would be appreciated
Yes stage 1 map is fine for now. If you want to get the most hp from your current mods, get a pro tune. Man I can't wait for my AP to come in. ;D Hey when you get your dp and exhaust let me know how it all goes. As for the CAI man, I wish I would've bought a short ram with a heat shield instead or mod the cold air piping so it won't be so low lol.
If there is no option to put the OEM Air Box on, I would be a little careful with the CAI. I would keep an eye on your AFR reading on your AP...

You should be fine!
 

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Speaking of CAI, one of the other threads was mentioned the Ultimate Racing CAI as being a great bang-for-buck mod, so I need translation on (a) "If there is no option to put the OEM Air Box on, I would be a little careful with the CAI. I would keep an eye on your AFR reading on your AP... " and (b) I wish I would've bought a short ram with a heat shield instead or mod the cold air piping so it won't be so low

Can you guys clarify what you mean? I was looking at snagging the UR CAI as my first mod (before the AP even).
 

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I will take on "A"....
A CAI allow for more air to enter the motor, now the MAF will meter the air as it enters the intake, to a certian point. Basically with a CAI + no tuine air can pass the sensor and enter the motor without it being metered, if the air is not metered the ECU will not inject the proper amount of fuel for the amount of air... leading to a lean situation. That is why watching the AFR reading on the AP is good idea.

Can you get away with running a CAI without a tune, yes. Would I do it, no. When you tune for a CAI you are taking into account the fact that there is more air flow, and basically resets the MAF to conpensate for it.. That is why a CAI is a good bang for your buck mod, but it can be dangerous to the motor with out a tune.
 

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Awesome, thanks for the reply, LC WRX.

Another noob question - do need a custom map loaded onto a AP to run only a CAI? I understand that many people order their APs from Perrin because Perrin provides their own map, but what do you do with the AP if you are piece-mealing your mods? Does the AP have settings that basically say "run with a CAI"?

TIA.
 

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I sorta wrote a novel... Sorry about that, I did not want to erase it... ;)


Unfortunately not... If I understand you correctly, you cannot take an OTS map and add from a drop down menu "CAI" or "injectors" or "TMIC" to the map.

There are breakpoints for OTS maps and different people will have different opinions:

Stage I = Basically Stock, with a few minor mods, like a CBE, that alone will not dramatically change the dynamics of the motor.
Stage II = some people say DP at a min other say full TBE at a min... (For me I am waiting for the full TBE)
Stage III, IV get into monster WHP get greyer and greyer. If that is your plan you would need to do the research on that and decided for yourself.

I am running the Perrin stage I 91 oct map. My car is completely stock, and so I can run the stage I tune. The difference between the Cobb stage I and Perrin Stage I is night and day. With the Perrin Map the, the power comes on faster, the car pulls harder, and the car really responds at freeway speeds... ;D where as the Cobb Map was good for its own reason, that is a whole different subject... If you are going to buy an AP buy it from Perrin or RalliTek, because of the maps.

To get a good tune it is expensive, I am planning on spending about $350 for a tune. So the idea is to try to clump mods together and then tune for it.

The best way to "piece-meal"mods together is to have a clear plan. Figure out what you want your car to do for you.

It is easier to explain what I plan on doing, my WRX is my daily driver, so I do want more WHP, bit I want to get more that 10mpg (I am pulling a mpg number out of the air), so my plan is stage II and I will probably stop right around there... I have the SPT on order, where I can run a stage I map with the CBE.

Right now I am saving up for the Cobb DP and When I install that I can run a Perrin Stage II OTS map, because I will have the full TBE. At some point I am going to get a CAI and when I do that I will get a PROTune.

So the path that I figured out allows me to run OTS map until I pretty much am done moding the motor. Now the PROTune will kick ass over ANY OTS map. OTS maps are created for "general mods" and a PROTune will take into account all of my mods and pull the max WHP and FT LBS it can safely out of my car.
 

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Great response, thank you - I think I follow.

I'm getting my SPT CBE on Tuesday (after ordering it in early April). Rumor has it you can expect ~10 WHP from that (aside from the great sound). I've heard conflicting info on that - any insight? Either way, my butt dyno will tell me something.... ;)
 

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Great response, thank you - I think I follow.

I'm getting my SPT CBE on Tuesday (after ordering it in early April). Rumor has it you can expect ~10 WHP from that (aside from the great sound). I've heard conflicting info on that - any insight? Either way, my butt dyno will tell me something.... ;)
Another novel... I need to stop drinking coffee...
but I digress... HAHA

You will gain a little, cuase you are putting a larger CBE on your car. The idea if you can exhale easier (exhaust) it will be easier to inhale, bring A LITTLE more air in and make A LITTLE more power.

IMO The debate is at the connection between an after market DP and the CBE going from 3" to 2.5" with the SPT and creating a choke point of .5". At that point is splitting hairs. There is porbably about a 5WHP difference in overall gain between a 2.5" CBE to a 3" CBE. Unless you are plannig to goto stage III or IV and make monster WHP; a 2.5" exhaust will support about 300 - 350WHP, For a street application that is pretty good. Where a 3" exhaust will support 500 - 600WHP and not all that pratical for the street, but really pretty cool...

I have also heard about 10WHP and to me that sounds about right... it will be a little kick in butt dyno, but the sound will rock!!!


There was one more thing I thought about from yesterday... My first mod was the AP and is the key to the process... The AP or engine management will tie everything togehter. with a tune it will make your motor run a little safer and pull the max out of the mods.

If you have anymore questions let me know, and I will write another book.... hahahaha
 

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I sorta wrote a novel... Sorry about that, I did not want to erase it... ;)


Unfortunately not... If I understand you correctly, you cannot take an OTS map and add from a drop down menu "CAI" or "injectors" or "TMIC" to the map.

There are breakpoints for OTS maps and different people will have different opinions:

Stage I = Basically Stock, with a few minor mods, like a CBE, that alone will not dramatically change the dynamics of the motor.
Stage II = some people say DP at a min other say full TBE at a min... (For me I am waiting for the full TBE)
Stage III, IV get into monster WHP get greyer and greyer. If that is your plan you would need to do the research on that and decided for yourself.

I am running the Perrin stage I 91 oct map. My car is completely stock, and so I can run the stage I tune. The difference between the Cobb stage I and Perrin Stage I is night and day. With the Perrin Map the, the power comes on faster, the car pulls harder, and the car really responds at freeway speeds... ;D where as the Cobb Map was good for its own reason, that is a whole different subject... If you are going to buy an AP buy it from Perrin or RalliTek, because of the maps.

To get a good tune it is expensive, I am planning on spending about $350 for a tune. So the idea is to try to clump mods together and then tune for it.

The best way to "piece-meal"mods together is to have a clear plan. Figure out what you want your car to do for you.

It is easier to explain what I plan on doing, my WRX is my daily driver, so I do want more WHP, bit I want to get more that 10mpg (I am pulling a mpg number out of the air), so my plan is stage II and I will probably stop right around there... I have the SPT on order, where I can run a stage I map with the CBE.

Right now I am saving up for the Cobb DP and When I install that I can run a Perrin Stage II OTS map, because I will have the full TBE. At some point I am going to get a CAI and when I do that I will get a PROTune.

So the path that I figured out allows me to run OTS map until I pretty much am done moding the motor. Now the PROTune will kick ass over ANY OTS map. OTS maps are created for "general mods" and a PROTune will take into account all of my mods and pull the max WHP and FT LBS it can safely out of my car.

[/quote
Well right now I am running a (custom)CAI and I am getting a check engine light. So if I get an ap would I be able to clear that check engine light or make it run safer with the stage I map? I've never had any experiences with an ap just a protune but for the moment no one around my area tunes the 08's.
 
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