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Discussion Starter #1
I need an alignment and I figured while I'm at it I might as well get some negative camber set...

I've been to 3 shops and all of them have given me excuses from "we aren't allowed to set non-factory specs" to "your car has no camber adjustment and we don't have the factory specs anyway so we can't even do a regular alignment"

does anyone here know if in fact the 5-door has camber adjustment that allows for negative camber in the front?


I thought it did but maybe I'm crazy
 

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This is all I could find in the service manual:
4. WHEEL ALIGNMENT OF FRONT
SUSPENSION
1) Check the alignment of front suspension to
make sure the following items are within tolerance.
• Toe-in
• Camber
• Caster
• Steering angle
<Ref. to FS-6, Wheel Alignment.>
2) When the caster angle does not conform to the
reference value obviously, visually inspect the following
components and replace deformed parts.
• Suspension components [Strut assembly, crossmember,
front arm, etc.]
• Parts connecting suspension and body
3) When the toe-in and camber are out of tolerance
value, adjust them so that they conform to standard
value.
4) When the right-and-left turning angles of tire are
out of standard, adjust to standard value.
5. WHEEL ALIGNMENT OF REAR
SUSPENSION
1) Check the alignment of rear suspension to make
sure the following items are within tolerance.
• Toe-in
• Camber
• Thrust angle
<Ref. to RS-7, Wheel Alignment.>
2) When the camber angle does not conform to tolerance
value, visually inspect the following components.
If the deformation is observed, replace the
damaged parts.
• Suspension components [Shock absorber, front
lateral link, rear lateral link, upper arm, trailing link
and sub frame]
• Parts connecting suspension and body
3) When the toe-in and thrust angle are out of tolerance
value, adjust them so that they conform to tolerance
value.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
yeah same here! the manual says:

3) When the toe-in and camber are out of tolerance value, adjust them so that they conform to standard value.

the guy at the alignment place claimed there "was no adjustment on the front" and that they "dug around for a while and couldn't find it!" which I found extremely hard to believe since as far as I can tell it's there where it's always been...

seems more like they promised to set me up with negative camber and then their boss said no so they wanted to make me think a factory setup was my only option -- which is why I think they were like "well whatever" when I said I'll just go somewhere else...

I found another place that'll do it... I just wish it wasn't so expensive.
 

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The guy at my alignment shop did what I asked and even let me watch.
Yes you can adjust for up to -.6 or -.7 degrees of camber in the front. The rear is fixed at -.5 degrees of camber. Both front and rear have toe adjustment. Caster is not adjustable (other than wiggle room).
He set me up with 0 degrees toe F/R and -.5 of camber F/R. After that it was a totally different car. From the dealer one of my front tires had a touch of positive camber and everything else was outta wack. This was after I took it back for the second time telling them I just didn't drive properly. A$$ hole told me I just wasn't used to driving an AWD car yet. Needles to say I sent him the bill with the before (alignment he did) and after alignment. I didn't get my money back, but at least I know it's right now.

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I took it to an alignment place and they were able to get me -0.5 camber and 0 toe all around. it drives "straight" now but the wheel isn't perfectly centered... though this may be due to the crown in the road. it definitely is a LOT better to drive.

it had POSITIVE camber from the dealership.
 

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++++ i'm getting mine re-aligned saturday. my dealer in Columbia couldn't do it because i've lowered my car... taking it to a dealer in springfield, mo. they asked me over the phone when i set up the appointment if i wanted - camber. cool dealership huh?
 

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There is definitely a front camber adjustment right on the strut assembly where it attaches to your outer wheel assembly.

Top bolt has a marker for you

Loosen lower bolt first, then loosen upper bolt, push the strut assembly in (you will see it move). Tighten the lower bolt then use upper bolt (while pushing strut assembly) to adjust as you see fit. Tighten nut and bolt side of top and bottom.

http://premium1.uploadit.org/austinpike//02_Wheel-Alignment3.jpg

Max negative for front left
 

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I would just refuse to pay if the shops refuse to do what you ask them. Though, even then if they say they will do what you ask, I would still probably just ask for my car back as there is a likely chance that they will just not do what you ask and say they did. Getting a shop to do a decent alignment is way harder than it should be.
 

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what's the deal with that? it only benefits the car, except maybe tire wear. so why wouldn't they do it?
 

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what's the deal with that? it only benefits the car, except maybe tire wear. so why wouldn't they do it?
because it's easier to just put it in the green and kick it out the door than it is to actually do what the customer asks. a lot of alignment shops that I've been to are like that. I've frequently had to remind them of what I asked and tell them to go put the car into the alignment specs that I requested. My new policy is just to refuse paying till they do so.
 

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that's weird. i hope my shop doesn't do that too me this saturday. they told me over the phone though to bring in my own specs... so i think i'll be safe.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
just an update from my story:

I ended up calling the CEO of Grismer Tire after they did a really really crappy alignment on my car and then charged me for it anyway (they refused to let me leave without paying). got a 100% refund... but only after arguing with the guy for 20 minutes over the phone. he didn't understand: I am a customer. I paid. I am not satisfied. I'd like a refund. he wanted to argue the details of the situation... I was like LOOK I just want a refund. the end.

they too refused to do a different alignment... I ended up having to go somewhere else to have it done (Firestone), where they had NO PROBLEM setting it as negative as it would go (around -1 on each side, 0 toe) and only charged me the regular alignment charge of $69.99 -- Grismer charged me over $120.

some places just let the computer do all the work and get the car out... other places, the mechanic has been doing alignments since before they had computers for it, and they are glad to set it to something more usable.
 

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i'm going to the subaru dealer. i hope they don't do that to me, but they told me to bring my own camber specs, so i hope it goes smoothly.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
weird that the dealer is going to set custom specs...... legally they can't set anything outside of the factory setup or they're voiding your suspension warranty... if not the tires, etc
 

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weird that the dealer is going to set custom specs...... legally they can't set anything outside of the factory setup or they're voiding your suspension warranty... if not the tires, etc
I could see them not honoring tire related claims, but I don't see how they could deny any other claim because your alignment wasn't in subaru spec. Besides, given the fact that the car was likely delivered completely out of spec, well, you do the math.
 

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I'd be interested to see what maximum camber numbers guys are able to get. The gen2 you could normally get -1.3ish out of them, I'm hearing a little less on the gen3, but that's only based on one alignment I've seen

I've got a couple ideas on eeking out a few extra tenths :)

someone posted -0.5 for rear camber, oe spec is actually -1.0
 

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I just had an alignment done by a local suspension shop that came recommended by somebody at NASIOC (couldn't find anybody on here that lived in ABQ or knew anything about local shops). I did the alignment after I had a bunch of Whiteline bushings put in, as well as their ALK and ROCK. The guy was really friendly and helpful. He did the alignment with me sitting in the car, since I am a good deal bigger than anyone that works at their shop. He asked me what I intended to do with the car, and I said some spirited driving and maybe an occasional auto-x (although I think my local SCCA chapter has closed), and that's what he set the alignment for. I have the specs he used back at home, and will post them up when I get back there.
 

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OK, here are my alignment numbers. My suspension mods include SPT Front Strut bar, Pinks, Perrin 25 Front/22 Rear, Perrin Endlinks Front/Rear, Whitline ALK, Whiteline ROCK, and some Whiteline bushings (front control arm, rear trailing link).

FRONT

Left Camber = -0.4 deg Right Camber = -0.5 deg

Left Caster = 5.4 deg Right Caster = 5.4 deg

Left Toe = 0.04 deg Right Toe = 0.03 deg

Steer Ahead = 0.01 deg


REAR

Left Camber = -1.4 deg Right Camber = -1.8 deg

Left Toe = 0.09 deg Right Toe = 0.10 deg

Thrust Angle = -0.01 deg
 

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looks like they did a good job w/ cross camber and toe :)

your rear camber is little higher than most I've seen, but still well within spec
 
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